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posted by [personal profile] rfunk at 01:25pm on 20/06/2006
The post I linked to in my previous entry starts out with a section I skipped over before, but don't want to ignore.

Apparently Stephen Hawking has now joined the chorus saying that humanity needs to start colonizing space in order to survive. JMS made it clear in Babylon 5 that he agrees with a version of this view, and it seems to be quite common among sci-fi geeks.

But it strikes me as wrong-headed.

Before going on I should distinguish between the Hawking view and the JMS view. JMS basically said we need to colonize space because our Sun won't last forever, and we want humanity to outlast the Sun. Hawking, however, points to "sudden global warming, nuclear war, a genetically engineered virus or other dangers we have not yet thought of." All of which are man-made and relatively short-term dangers, quite a bit different from the Sun eventually running out of fuel.

So anyway, let's imagine that we get to the point, 50 or 100 years from now, that we can start colonizing Mars or Alpha Centauri or whatever. In the meantime, things here on Earth continue going downhill as global warming worsens, more people get their hands on nuclear weapons, the population keeps increasing, natural resources are depleted, and so on. But according to Hawking, that's OK, because we pick up and move. Billions of us. By that time probably tens of billions unless we have a massively deadly global disaster first.

Let's be realistic. When things get that bad, and there's a way out, that way out will not be available to everyone at once. Only the people of means will be able to get out early; as time goes on it may get either more expensive or less expensive to become a space colonist (depending on how things advance Out There vs how quickly things get worse Back Here). Those without money and power will be left behind on an increasingly inhospitable planet.

The thing is, if the people in power now would spend their resources on fixing the problems on Earth rather than on finding an escape route, it would be more likely to benefit everybody rather than only themselves.

I just realized, getting back to the whole Star Trek thing of yesterday, that one reason I've never been a huge Trek fan (though I don't dislike it and of course I like sci-fi in general) is that the Star Trek view of the future seems unrealistically idealistic. Roddenberry imagined that somehow mankind would magically change its nature in the next few centuries, and his legion of fans romanticize space colonization without thinking about (or at least mentioning) how to politically and socially get from where we are now to that idealistic point.
Music:: Bob Geldof - "The End of the World"
Mood:: 'pessimistic' pessimistic
There are 16 comments on this entry. (Reply.)
 
posted by [identity profile] featherynscale.livejournal.com at 05:32pm on 20/06/2006
So wait. All of the corporate heads and political leaders (that's your money and power) leave earth first, leaving the rest of us here?
I say we start colonization before we Have To Leave. Then maybe the rest of us won't have to at all. :-P
 
posted by [identity profile] rfunk.livejournal.com at 05:40pm on 20/06/2006
Heh, but they won't leave until it does get bad here. They have more power and (for now) comfort here than they would Out There, so as long as life is good here they'll stay.

Life on Earth will get much worse for the Have-Nots long before the Haves feel the pinch.
 
posted by [identity profile] featherynscale.livejournal.com at 05:44pm on 20/06/2006
I know it. It wasn't a serious assessment of how anything might actually work, just an idle thought.
 
posted by [identity profile] rfunk.livejournal.com at 05:48pm on 20/06/2006
Yeah, sorry, if I weren't so annoyed about the whole thing I might've responded more in the spirit you intended.
 
posted by [identity profile] duriyah.livejournal.com at 07:00pm on 20/06/2006
The thing is, if the people in power now would spend their resources on fixing the problems on Earth rather than on finding an escape route, it would be more likely to benefit everybody rather than only themselves.

I agree. I would rather see us cleaning up our mess here at home before we go looking for another world to trash.



 
posted by [identity profile] dachte.livejournal.com at 07:00pm on 20/06/2006
Two or three interesting points to touch on...

1) One might imagine their perspective to assume survival of the species (and the long history tied to it) to be more important than doing that justly. How to reflect on/react to that is an interesting problem

2) If we can't make social progress before then, space might not be very effective at preserving humanity.

3) I don't know if Roddenberry assumed the change would be "magical" so much as that it would happen. One possible view (that I don't *entirely* agree with) is that societal advancement is inevitable and that we'll get there, disempowering those who would enslave us eventually. Does Roddenberry portray it as an easy transition? Does he portray it at all? I don't consider him much of a political philosopher, and can't think of many instances where he's talked much about political theory, but if his work is portrayed as a looming future reality, we probably should ask the people who do so "How?", rather than fault him as a writer who might not be so interested in that. It may be that the casting of Uhura was a small step of activism, but activism is only a baby step towards becoming a statesman.

Incidentally, allow me to recommend Ken MacLeod's Fall Revolution series. The first book is close to cyberpunk, and his later book "Cassini Division" is closer to hard sci-fi, but both of them have a deep political edge to them that I think presents a future that acknowledges human nature and politics.
 
posted by [identity profile] rfunk.livejournal.com at 07:19pm on 20/06/2006
1) Survival more important than justice: Yes, but I wonder how many of the people espousing views like Hawking's really think it through this far.

2) Effectiveness of space preserving humanity without more social progress: This seems to be one idea explored by the current Battlestar Galactica series. I figure that human nature is unlikely to change no matter how much the technology does, and sending populations into space sends the sociopolitical problems along too. How these things hurt the chances for survival, however, is hard to predict.

3) At least in the Brannon Braga era the canonical Star Trek view seems to be that contact with the Vulcans made humanity somehow come together as one and solve everything. Actually I think Roddenberry himself was more interested in using futuristic settings to comment on current social issues, rather than truly attempting to posit a potential or desirable future. So maybe I should be slamming Braga more than Roddenberry.

Come to think of it, Roddenberry's Andromeda series may have taken a more realistic view of what might happen with Earth in a post-space-colonization future.
 
posted by [identity profile] nontacitare.livejournal.com at 08:57pm on 20/06/2006
Come to think of it, Roddenberry's Andromeda series may have taken a more realistic view of what might happen with Earth in a post-space-colonization future.

I dunno. I thought that was more "The Magog are coming to eat you!" ;-)
 
posted by [identity profile] rfunk.livejournal.com at 09:13pm on 20/06/2006
Er, before the Magog came to eat everyone.....
 
posted by [identity profile] nontacitare.livejournal.com at 09:48pm on 21/06/2006
Before the Magog came to eat everyone, everyone lived in an idyllic, happy, globe-trotting galaxy, until the genetically-engineered Nietzschians (sp?) betrayed humans, and then everything went to hell in a hand-basket, with humans reverting to what we think of as more realistic. Remember time-traveling boy scout Dilan Hunt's culture shock when he realized he wasn't in Roddenberry's Star Trek universe anymore?
 
posted by [identity profile] rfunk.livejournal.com at 09:55pm on 21/06/2006
Yeah, but in between the Nietzcheans and the Magog, Harper was shown going home to the dump that Earth had become.
 
posted by [identity profile] nontacitare.livejournal.com at 12:46am on 22/06/2006
Yes, the Earth that had been conquered and ruled by the Nietzcheans for two centuries.
 
posted by [identity profile] rfunk.livejournal.com at 12:49am on 22/06/2006
Sounds realistic to me. Nietzcheans = Powerful ones.
 
posted by [identity profile] nontacitare.livejournal.com at 08:53pm on 20/06/2006
Does Roddenberry portray it as an easy transition? Does he portray it at all?

In Next Generation and Deep Space 9, references were made to things getting pretty terrible on Earth during the 21st century, causing humanity to say, "We're not going to survive unless we radically reform our society." So they abolished war, money, and genetic engineering, and once they got their act together, the Vulcans said, "Hey, you might grow up to be a pretty cool planet," came to visit and gave Earth space travel. But there was a harsh transition period for a couple of centuries.

Of course, I have no idea what Enterprise did with the history.
 
posted by [identity profile] braider.livejournal.com at 01:55am on 21/06/2006
o and n are a fine couple of letters, placed in the correct word.

I, too, was never a fan of "we've fucked up earth, let's destroy some more planets because we still haven't learned our lesson".
 
posted by [identity profile] rfunk.livejournal.com at 01:59am on 21/06/2006
Picky picky. I guess that's what I get for rushing to finish this before getting back to work. At least it was right in the filename I saved yesterday. And it's right now.

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